Create a new location in Madison? help?

[Hilton]

After traveling to CO this past week and playing pinball at LOTS of great locations it has increased my desire to have a good place to play location pinball in Madison.

I know of a few places on the Eastside that are likely interested in making this happen and want to get your guys input and see if anyone else is interested in having a run at it.

Before I lay out my idea I want to say that the big thing is this is NOT about making money as I fully understand that route pinball is dead. This is fueled about a desire to have a fun place to play location pinball and a small destination in Madison that pinheads would possibly stop by and play some nice condition games. If it can offset the costs of games for a few owners than that is a plus but definately not the assumption.

I would like to find a place that can house 4 to 6 games. I am thinking 4 games is the minimum to actually have a 'destination' and 4 is the minimum to also be able to help really promote location pinball by having a monthly league at the place. In conjunction the annual liscensing fee for pinball machines in Madison is $220 for 4 to 6 games so having 6 games costs no more than 4 if they are all at a single location.

That said, I do not have more than 1 or 2 games I could or would want to put on location. This means in order for this to even be a possibility I want to put out some feelers to see if any other locals are interested in putting a machine out on location. I think it would be great to get 4-6 people all looking to put out 1-2 games. This has the benefite\ of making the location a fun place for even the game owners to play >> since they really only normally play 1-2 of the games, all the other ones would be fun to go check out once in a while. It also means that games are more likely to get rotated on a more regular basis. If we have 4 people involved then 4 times the chance of games getting rotated and keeping the location feeling fresh.

The other benefit or more people is the overall risk is very low to any 1 person.

Please let me know your thoughts and if anyone is interested in persuing this idea. If people are interested and willing to commit then the next step is to talk to a few locations I have in mind to get commitment from them. After that, we can really put things in motion by creating a LLC and getting the appropriate insurance and liscenses from the city. The city amusement device liscenses are effective starting July 1st so now is a good time to start seeing if this can be anything more than a dream.

If you don't want to post here but are interested then please get a hold of me via PM or email or phone.

The general idea would be that if you commit and we find a good location then you would be in for 1 year (since that is how the liscening fee runs). I plan to try and negotiate a deal with any location to help offset the liscense fee and insurance fee prior to any split. I know many places try to get a 50:50 split but I think we may be able to negotiate a better deal since we are offering something besides amusement devices, we are offering a potential 'destination location' for pinball which could bring them increased food and beer sales.

After liscense fees and insurance are paid for then you get to keep the split on your games. After all set up I would plan to run a monthly tournament at the location and try to get the bar to provide prizes.

I would obviously ask that you be willing to provide a solid game that has been gone through and is clean and that you would be willing to keep in clean or let me keep it clean. I would likely put my games like RS and TAF (post a good flipper rebuild) since they will play solid after I clean them up a bit but the cabs are already crap so I don't care if they get beat up.

I am willing to do all the leg work to take care of games and keep organized records so it honestly should be relaitively hassle free for those that want to offer a game but not be involved much beyond that.


Thoughts? besides I am crazy...

We need more location pinball in Madison and I don't see any other way ot is going to happen unless some of us try to make it happen.

[RustyLizard]

I think it's a great idea. I think you are right that not a lot of money will be made. I seriously wish I was closer because I would be in. If I did it from a distance I know it would bother me not to be able to check in every week and obviously I would spend more on gas than I could make.

I daydream about this kind of thing and my only concern would be that you get a solid established location. I would hate to see the place go under and get locked down with games in there. It would be stressful to say the least if they weren't recovered. That being said, I don't know much about the laws for that kind of thing.

If you make this happen I would certainly drive down on occasion and drop some coin.

[Hilton]

The handful of locations I am considering are well established and I have no fears of them going anywhere, but that is a good point. I am assuming that the LLC insurance will cover game loss under any circumstance. Madison has laws that require games to clearly identify the owner of the machine so I would assume in the rare case that a business closed its doors there is no fear of the bank trying to take the games.

My best guess based on watching locals drop coins in games in town and what I spend on games when I go play on location is that if we can create a 'destination' with at least 4 nice playing games each of them may make $20 per week. If we have a 50:50 split with the bar (that would be a worse case senario) then after fees each game may make $400 a year? After you take off for flipper rebuilds and new rubber and maintainence each game should make $300 a year is my best guess minimum. It is nothing to write home about, but making an actual location to play pinball would be priceless.

Of course a monthly tournament at the place would likely help with coin drop and people practicing on machines during the days leading up to the monthly event, so coin drop could go up.

The way I look at it, if money of your main motivation it may not pay much, but then again making my cost for a $2100 machine turn into $1800 in a year is not a bad thing. Add in that I would put out good playing machines that I have not done much restoration work to and I would not be very concerned with any added wear and tear.

[DeaconBlooze]

I like the idea.. East Madison is a little far for me, I work on the West side, and live in Edgerton. If I were to stop after work, for example, I'd be going about 45 minutes out of my way. Not the worst, but not ideal, either. What bars are you considering?

[Hilton]

Pooley's is #1 on my list since we already have a nice relationship with them. They have an operator for the other coin op junk (modern specialities I think?) and that operator does not want to bring any pinball there and the owner of Pooley's has already OK'd it with him to have someone else bring pinballs. The owner of Pooley's has called me a number of times now and wants me to set up a few games there as he is a fan of pinball in general (and so are the wait staff and cooks; which is a good thing for people looking out for games). I have not made anything official with him since I have not wanted to do this on my own and I see no reason to only do 1-2 games which is all I could do on my own.


#2 choice is the Lazy Oaf as they have the room as the owner has also inquired about me setting up a few games. Bullseye is their operator but they refuse to operate pinball even though the Oaf has asked for them to bring pinball back (used to be a sapranos there about 18 months ago).

Both of these location are secure and have a nice client base. They also have the room to give up for 4-6 pins.

I am completely open to other places but that is where I would want to start as they have a good amount of traffic, are not college bars, and have the room and desire for pinball. They are also close to me and assuming I would be the main person keeping the games clean and attending to issues I would want the location to be relatively close to me. The other issue is finding a place that has the room to give up for pins.

[u2sean]

Yup - love the idea. I too have been kicking this around in my head (on and off) for over a year but realistically just don't have the time to go it alone.

[Methos]

Hilton -

You know I have some interest sort of idea about pursuing this.....I even talked to Roger Sharpe at Expo to get his take on it.

Consider me interested and could offer up a few games. That will help my storage challenge.

[RustyLizard]

If their current op would allow you in I think you have crossed the biggest hurdle.

[Hilton]

Enough guys have contacted me to show interest that I feel confident there is at least a glimmer of hope.

I am researching LLC stuff and will talk to my tax guy when I meet up with him in a few weeks. I am not sure what is the best way to go about the business side of stuff, but want to make sure it is 100% on the up and up.

I will start talking to the location owners to see if I can get their firm commitment also.

If anyone else has a good location suggestion then please message me.

[Hilton]

Just wanted to let everyone know that things are progressing VERY nicely with the location hunt. Logistics may actually be able to fall in place sooner rather than later for 4 to 6 games with the agreement of a monthly league being part of the deal (which is want I really want anyway).

I am currently unsure of the LLC aspect as it appears pretty costly in WI to establish and maintain. If anyone has experience please contact me. It is currently looking like getting good insurance is more important for liability aspects than creating a LLC?

[Ken]

Monthly league? Go on...

[Hilton]

Monthly league? Go on...

That would be the plan if this dream becomes a reality. Want to add your earthshaker to the potential lineup? That woudl be a great game to earn on route I woudl think???

[Ken]

I'd have to run the idea past Tully. I think he has dibs on putting ES on route.

I am definitely considering it though. Overall a great idea.

[nardmacmke]

Just wanted to say to the Madtown crew here, I LOVE this idea. After leaving Hilton's Last Chance tourney, I went on a mini adventure to try and play pins across Madtown and hit too many bumps.

Started at Rossi's, which was cool. I like the old classic video games as well, but I was looking for pins. I got to play Dr. Who for the first time which was nice. The other games were pretty wanting, with a Tales from the Crypt that i thought would fall over with the slightest nudge.

Having Lance's handy list, I decided to try some other places. I started at Up North Bar, or whatever. They had a busted XMen, nothing else.

Went from there to Alt N Bach's farther south because it said they had an Avatar. They did. It was ok, and no TILT, but after a while was ready to schlep it back to Brewtown.

I felt like I missed out on a place, or there wasn't any. With this topic hopefully coming to a reality, I know I will have a solid place to hit when in Madtown.

[Methos]

Just wanted to let everyone know that things are progressing VERY nicely with the location hunt. Logistics may actually be able to fall in place sooner rather than later for 4 to 6 games with the agreement of a monthly league being part of the deal (which is want I really want anyway).

I am currently unsure of the LLC aspect as it appears pretty costly in WI to establish and maintain. If anyone has experience please contact me. It is currently looking like getting good insurance is more important for liability aspects than creating a LLC?

Setting up a LLC is very cheap as basically you just obtain a FEIN #. The biggest cost will be in the articles of cooperation and agreement between members including exit clauses. I worked for a CPA firm years ago and we did this all day long....but its been a long time.

Stay away from partnerships or C-Corps. We'll have to decided how the expenses and revenues are divided out, who is the majority member, how the insurance is handled, who negotiates the agreements, who prepares and signs the tax return....etc.

Now that I think about it, I forgot about all the hidden costs.