TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

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Hilton
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TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by Hilton »

So yet again TX is resetting. I have had it with this F$%cking game.

Sean was nice enough to come over and help me do the ground mods and replace stuff in the 5v line. It was still resetting for us till we unplugged the watchdog board. It worked for a bunch of games while Sean was here and I have not played it since because I was on vacation. I go to fire it up today and nothing but resets. I am at my limits with this turd and very close to using it for kindling.

My real frustration stems from the original seller and my trusting his word. He was selling it as a fully functional and clean game. I made the drive (~10hr round trip) to MI and when I got there it was pretty apparent that the game had major issues, was filthy, has swelling on the bottom of the cab, and was likely used mainly to store fresh pot (based on the smell). I still bought it because I was pretty much already potted in with a 5hr drive to get there. He knew this and it was apparent by the way he acted in the transaction.

I ignorantly thought it was no big deal and I would be able to get her working. In conjunction TX is a somewhat rare game so I figured I should jump and figure it out later.

So here it is about a year after buying the game and I still can't play it. I was really hoping to have it shopped and ready to roll for December league night. As I am spending all my free time on the RFM pf swap I do nto have the time to trouble shoot this turd again.

Here is where I ask for help.
Does anyone that is knowledgeable in Gottlieb pieces of crap era boards what to make some money and fix this thing? I will happily transport the whole game to you and pick it up when you are done. I will also happily pay you for your time.

If not, then I may just go office space on this thing.
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KingPin Games
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Re: TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by KingPin Games »

i might have some gottlieb boards at the office. can you take a picture of yours and send it to me.
Last edited by KingPin Games on Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hilton
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Re: TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by Hilton »

photos sent

and attempt to attach here
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jpolfer
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Re: TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by jpolfer »

[Going by knowledge of embedded systems here...]

If you removed the watchdog board and the game stopped resetting, my guess is that the watchdog board, just like a real world dog, is not being 'fed', so it isn't 'happy'. The watchdog is not getting an appropriate signal for something it is monitoring, so it thinks the game needs to be reset to stop the fault.

The tricky part is isolating what is causing watchdog to kick off the reset.

Is there a way that you could have the watchdog monitor boards but not cause a hard-reset on the entire game? That way you could pull boards one by one and examine whether or not they are signaling to the watchdog that they are functional. Or you could try faking out the 'I'm fine!' signal to the watchdog board for individual boards to isolate the problematic board.

Today is a hackathon with my friends that I've been using to improve my pinball tournament tools. If I have some spare time I'll look up the board.

Dunno if the above helps. I know this is kinda generic.
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u2sean
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Re: TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by u2sean »

Hey Hilton, sorry that your TX continues to give you trouble! That's no fun. Don't give up on it - the old Gottliebs can be a serious PITA (been there, done that) and sometimes need a lot of work to get running smooth.

That being said, here is what I would do next to see if anything changes. Details of why these is below:

1. Check the connector going to the MPU. Reseat it and see if behavior changes. Might need to retin and replace pins
2. Slam switch - clean and adjust on the coin door. We should do the mod (below)

Details. All ground mods done, BR and big cap replaced, along with the power supply trim pot. I feel confident we have a solid 5v line. Since it continued to reset with heavy flipper usage, we unplugged the watchdog board and things were good for a few games. This was put in place to reset the CPU when on location when displays or coils would lock on, and isn't really needed in the home environment. Replace the caps on there if you'd like, but I think you can keep it disconnected. Anyone else have thoughts on this?? From Clay's guide:
So what is the solution? Well you can keep the Reset board disconnected. But a better idea is to just replace the electrolytic caps on the Reset board.

C1 = 47 mfd at 10 volts
C2 = 4.7 mfd at 10 volts
C3 = 470 mfd at 16 volts
C4 = 470 mfd at 16 volts
Honestly, the next thing I would check is the connector going to the CPU board that provides the 5 /12 /gnd. We didn't replace the pins on there because it was originally working. However, it could be that it's simply worn out. Reseat it and see if anything changes. It could be the pads on the board need a little retinning as well.

Slam switch mod. We didn't do this, but if this were a slam switch issue the game wouldn't coin up. Temporarily clean the slam switch on the inside of the coin door to make sure it's making good contact and try again.

Connectors. We didn't replace any of the connectors other than all the grounds at the bottom of the cabinet. Unfortunately, Gottliebs are notorious for bad connectors. The big one that goes from the CPU to the Driver board in particular. Before digging into replacing these, I'd rule out other causes first as this can really take a lot of time.

Keep us posted. I'd also be happy to stop out. If I had the space and more time, I'd happily take it in and get it rockin but it's simply not in the cards at this point.

- Sean
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tullster
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Re: TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by tullster »

I just remembered a weird problem fix from years ago. Have you removed and checked that standoff/satellite board on the CPU & checked for cracked solder joints? We had a Hollywood Heat & Genesis on the route that acted up and both had cracked solder joints on the standoff pins under that board. Sort of a dumb design, but they must have added that chip last minute. You'll have to de-solder the board to get a good look at it, but it might be worthwhile. At least re-flow it for peace of mind.

Take a deep breath Hilton, It'll get fixed!
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ralphwiggum
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Re: TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by ralphwiggum »

I would leave the watchdog out all together. Sean is on the right path with this, I am willing to place a friendly wager that since your 5 volt is solid now, you have some flaky connectors. This era Gottlieb has horrible connectors. Replace them and see where you are at after replacing them.
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ralphwiggum
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Re: TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by ralphwiggum »

tullster wrote:I just remembered a weird problem fix from years ago. Have you removed and checked that standoff/satellite board on the CPU & checked for cracked solder joints? We had a Hollywood Heat & Genesis on the route that acted up and both had cracked solder joints on the standoff pins under that board. Sort of a dumb design, but they must have added that chip last minute. You'll have to de-solder the board to get a good look at it, but it might be worthwhile. At least re-flow it for peace of mind.

Take a deep breath Hilton, It'll get fixed!

This is a good point as well. this was a very common issue on these machines. I really hated that daughterboard...
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Hilton
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Re: TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by Hilton »

Just wanted to update that a HUGE thanks to TULLY. The man is a genius.

We went through and did a bunch of stuff (fixed the stupid stand off board; what a bad design) and finally got TX working for now.

I am not sure what the exact problem was and think it was probably a combination of things, but we found a bad connector that came from the standoff to watchdog and also a bad slamtilt switch.

Hopefully I will get her all cleaned up for league time!
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Re: TX sector > Venting!!!! and help?

Post by tullster »

Oh, Stop it!

Patience, a little experience, dumb luck & constantly telling you to put the ax away were all factors! :lol:

Seriously, it helps to just brainstorm with a second person and to keep trying different stuff until it gets fixed!

Looking forward to spending some quality time playing it! Interesting Game!!
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