Star Wars

[Chris K]

Awesome review, thanks Maya! I’m curious how the rules will evolve. It does seem people are pretty worried about the “40x” effect blowing out any other strategies, but I know GB had the same problem until like 1.05. It’s a simple rule fix if they deem it unbalanced.

[QuyN]

SWpro is in the city...

Being made route ready and hopefully going out in the next day or 2...

in Stern fashion, "stay tuned"

Very cool! Looking forward to playing it!

[Hilton]

assuming the code arrives today... (yes Stern really shipped us an over 5k game without ANY code or SD card)

Then the game will get set up at Marias this evening or Friday...

[DeaconBlooze]

lol. Yeah I don't really understand why they wouldn't have at least sent you a blank SD card, and allowed you to download the code?

[QuyN]

assuming the code arrives today... (yes Stern really shipped us an over 5k game without ANY code or SD card)

Then the game will get set up at Marias this evening or Friday...

That makes ZERO sense...why would they do that?

[Chris K]

Well, if the code isn't ready and the table is, you could ship the table, knowing that it would take a week to work its way through shipping companies, and then deliver the SD card by FedEx or something, overnight.

Customer gets their table faster, customer gets newer, better code, and your factory doesn't have a bunch of stuff sitting around that you have no space to store.

That's why you MIGHT do it. Sounds like that's not what actually happened in this case.

[Hilton]

U would agree but in that case you would actually ship the complete game (including a formatted SD card) and then allow the customer to download the new code when available.

[Chris K]

Yeah, it sounds like they haven’t figured out (or don’t want to for control reasons) how to distribute a “baked” SD card via the Internet.

I’d be curious to see how long these SD cards last in the wild. SD cards have limited read/write cycles, and QC isn’t exactly tight. So long as Stern is happy to send you an SD card for your 10 year old SPIKE table we won’t have any issues, but will it always be that way?

I say that as I await delivery of my second SPIKE table.

[moe]

SD cards, and all flash memory, have nearly infinite read cycles. The is the write cycles that are limited and at that it's normally somewhere in the 100's of thiusands if not millions for write cycles

[QuyN]

That would be like buying a new phone, but not being able to activate it yet, or buying a new TV, but you can't watch anything on it, or buying a new home theater, but you can't listen to anything...get what I mean?

Just doesn't make sense. Complete the product, send it out. I get that code evolves, which is great, but Stern seems to be setting up the idea that having an unfinished product is ok. Then when a code doesn't get finished, people complain about it. JJP sent out prototype samples of Dialed In! for people to play and provide feedback before putting the machine on the production line. THAT should be how it works, so that when a customer receives a machine, it is 99% complete, with tweaking done to the code to enhance it.

I don't know, maybe I'm the minority in all this. I'm still a noob. /rant

[Chris K]

If Stern (or JJP) waited until the product was DONE, we'd have gotten Ghostbusters a couple months ago, and Star Wars wouldn't be out for six months. And it's not just Stern or pinball in general. Look at any software product; they add features over time, and the market has determined that's good.

Not having the SD cards ready in time isn't great, but if they had waited until the SD cards were in the machines, they'd start shipping now, and everyone would have gotten their tables a week later. And then everyone would be bitching that the tables were taking forever to produce.

This whole catastrophe is basically a small JIT manufacturing hiccup.

The reality is, Stern (and everybody else) puts out their product not 100% done. They've done it consistently, and anybody who signs up to buy a new table knows it going in. Handing Stern money is tacit approval of their business model. We'll all vote with our wallets, and if Stern feels like they could make more money by changing their practices, they will.

[Hilton]

If Stern (or JJP) waited until the product was DONE, we'd have gotten Ghostbusters a couple months ago, and Star Wars wouldn't be out for six months. And it's not just Stern or pinball in general. Look at any software product; they add features over time, and the market has determined that's good.

Not having the SD cards ready in time isn't great, but if they had waited until the SD cards were in the machines, they'd start shipping now, and everyone would have gotten their tables a week later. And then everyone would be bitching that the tables were taking forever to produce.

This whole catastrophe is basically a small JIT manufacturing hiccup.

The reality is, Stern (and everybody else) puts out their product not 100% done. They've done it consistently, and anybody who signs up to buy a new table knows it going in. Handing Stern money is tacit approval of their business model. We'll all vote with our wallets, and if Stern feels like they could make more money by changing their practices, they will.

Keep in mind many games shipped with the bug code while othr did not. This is not just a minor screw up. This is yet another screw up in a long list of screw ups. Ghosting pfs, unfinished code, pealing decals, cracked cabs, ... getting tired of the issues

You are correct that we all vote with our wallets and things like this are what make me personally question why i keep giving stern any money, esp when supporting other options is the only way to make sure there are other options.

I feel fortunate that we are now at a point of having lots of other options.

[Chris K]

We've all seen JJP, Spooky, and Heighway tables down for the count, too. The idea that Stern can't make good pinball tables is demonstrably false. If Stern sucked, Adam Smith would have choked them to death rather than {insert the name of almost any pinball company here}.

These really are idiotic machines. Mechanical failure and manufacturing errors are essentially part of the design. I see only two good choices when it comes to pinball:

A) Buy tables and learn to live with their foibles
B) Buy any video game system in the world and enjoy reliable entertainment

Option "C", "Buy pinball tables and complain about how awful they are" seems to me a waste of time and sanity.

I know one thing for sure: Star Wars is going to earn a crapton of money on route.

[QuyN]

I don't disagree that none of the major manufacturer's tables are ever 100% complete when they ship. What I don't think they should do is send out a machine that doesn't have the "brains" to turn on and play. That's what they're doing by sending out a table, but not providing the code with it. It's one thing to have a table that has a code that needs tweaking here and there, but it's another thing to send out tables that aren't playable. Aren't people STILL complaining about the KISS code on Pinside? Or something else? Heck, even Twilight Zone just underwent a code revision not too long ago, and that game is near 25 yrs old! But the key difference is that you can still plunge and flip a ball.

With all the drama coming from Predator, TBL, any of the JPOP tables, Heighway, and all the rest of what's happening in the hobby, I can't ever say that I'd buy a NIB table.

Even with all the excitement that I have with TNA, it will be very hard for me to buy a NIB table. And it's for all the reasons mentioned that I can't bring myself to do it. But then again, I'm happy that I've been able to take part to begin with.

EDIT: I see that the KISS code was recently updated

[u2sean]

Star Wars is now out at Maria's Bar at 1444 East Washington Ave, along with 8 other games. It's been placed out in the side lineup so you'll be able to hear everything well. Thanks to everyone for their continued support - truly appreciated!

I played a whole game on it before I had to go - it's crazy fast! I'll be curious to hear what everyone thinks of it. I'm sure there will be code updates in the coming months, so hopefully this will end up being a great title. Being a Star Wars fan myself I'm hoping for the best.

- Sean