More WI tourneys.

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Ken
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More WI tourneys.

Post by Ken »

After yesterdays Up North tourney I think we need to get a few more WI tourneys on the schedule. try and get more WI people into the top 16 for the state chamionship. Sounds like it's pretty easy to get it "official". 1. have it on the IFPA calendar 30 days in advance. 2. Have a website (wisconsinpinball.com) to direct people to. 3. Don't exclude anyone.

Tim, we could make an exclusive thread jsut for infos sake right? No posting (if we want) just tourney info and registration?

I really don't like the idea of a state championship without more WI people like Neo, Tim, and MANY others. Or maybe I'm just worrying to much. I'm pretty sure I'm in the top 16 after MRP and the Up North so this is not for me as much as the people I enjoy playing with.

If anyone knows another place like Up North (2 machines or more) to have some small tourneys chime in. Local hangout? Friends bar? Bowling alley? I'll coordinate with location if need be.
Hilton
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by Hilton »

I am looking in to things. I would like to have something at my house after RFM is working but also don't care for random drunks to show up.
Ken
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by Ken »

Yea, I thought that might be the drawback to having it someone's house. But how many random drunks watch the IFPA website. I know I don't. :)

I think at worst you'd get random pinheads. But we could handle them!

Glad I'm not the only one thinking of this.
Hilton
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by Hilton »

one problem being that there are a few of the more shady types in town and I really don't care to invite them into my house... It may be worth a shot to see how it goes and if too many oddballs sign up then just cancel or remove the IFPA from the event and make it a party with just the guys that we know are legit?
Ken
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by Ken »

2 legit 2 quit! Hey Hey!
jpolfer
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by jpolfer »

Ken wrote:After yesterdays Up North tourney I think we need to get a few more WI tourneys on the schedule. try and get more WI people into the top 16 for the state chamionship. Sounds like it's pretty easy to get it "official". 1. have it on the IFPA calendar 30 days in advance. 2. Have a website (wisconsinpinball.com) to direct people to. 3. Don't exclude anyone.

Tim, we could make an exclusive thread jsut for infos sake right? No posting (if we want) just tourney info and registration?

I really don't like the idea of a state championship without more WI people like Neo, Tim, and MANY others. Or maybe I'm just worrying to much. I'm pretty sure I'm in the top 16 after MRP and the Up North so this is not for me as much as the people I enjoy playing with.

If anyone knows another place like Up North (2 machines or more) to have some small tourneys chime in. Local hangout? Friends bar? Bowling alley? I'll coordinate with location if need be.
I'll weigh in on this, because right now I'm on the tournament director list for the State Championship:

1. I think the goal of the State Championship is to promote more local tournaments in the states. It's working! Last year we had three IFPA regional tournaments in WI. This year we've added some monthly ones to the mix, and classics divisions at the regionals, plus leagues, in addition to some non-IFPA tournaments. That's a lot.
2. The more local tournaments we have, the greater the likelihood that in-state people will qualify. Dave Beimborn and Matt Ennocenti have both hit the top 16 as a result of recent local tournaments in the last month.
3. At least 9 of the top 16 are from out-of-state right now, but a number of them are high-profile players from the midwest. I strongly suspect that they will qualify in multiple states. It does remain to be seen whether they will attend the WI State Championship or another state championship, as players may only attend one. In cases where they opt to attend a different state's championship, people below the top 16 will bubble up and be contacted, and many are from the WI area right now.

Aside: I also might back out of running the WI State Championship. I'm qualified for the Georgia State Championship in a top 30% slot, and if I make it through to the top 16, I'd like to attend their state championship. If anyone is interested in helping out with WI State Championship, let me or Steve Tully know.
Hilton
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by Hilton »

I am actually debating running the REAL WI state Championship at a private residence on the same date that IFPA is running their fake WI championships.

As many of you know I feel the IFPA state championship stuff is a crock based on 2 things:

1. As Jon pointed out, the state you live in has nothing to do with the event. I will not be surprised if a few ringers from surrounding states show up to play in the WI IFPA championships just so they have a better chance of attending the IFPA national event (I think top 2 go on). Currently the top 7 'WI' players are NOT from WI. 10 out of the top 16 are NOT from WI. This is not like any state event for any other sport I have ever heard of.

2. The money grab of the IFPA for the national event is pretty sick. The way they have set up each state event is that it will bring in $320 in entrance fees. They require that $100 goes directly to the national prize pool. It is not surprising that some of the top players in the world/nation are also the ones making up the rules. I would have no problem if they required a $50 entrance fee for anyone playing in the national event but the requirement for each state to donate $100 regardless if their players will attend nationals is BS in my opinion.

I have provided this feedback to IFPA and it has fallen on deaf ears.

I have no doubt that their ultimate goal it to promote competitive pinball. However it is obvious to me that they also like to do everything they can pump up the prize pot so the guys who run IFPA have a bigger pool to play for.

The IFPA "state championships" is a sham.

I would like to see us continue to grow competitive pinball events on the local, regional, and state level. Let's have a real state championship with players FROM Wisconsin!

Anyone else interested?
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ralphwiggum
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by ralphwiggum »

Hilton wrote:I am actually debating running the REAL WI state Championship at a private residence on the same date that IFPA is running their fake WI championships.

As many of you know I feel the IFPA state championship stuff is a crock based on 2 things:

1. As Jon pointed out, the state you live in has nothing to do with the event. I will not be surprised if a few ringers from surrounding states show up to play in the WI IFPA championships just so they have a better chance of attending the IFPA national event (I think top 2 go on). Currently the top 7 'WI' players are NOT from WI. 10 out of the top 16 are NOT from WI. This is not like any state event for any other sport I have ever heard of.

2. The money grab of the IFPA for the national event is pretty sick. The way they have set up each state event is that it will bring in $320 in entrance fees. They require that $100 goes directly to the national prize pool. It is not surprising that some of the top players in the world/nation are also the ones making up the rules. I would have no problem if they required a $50 entrance fee for anyone playing in the national event but the requirement for each state to donate $100 regardless if their players will attend nationals is BS in my opinion.

I have provided this feedback to IFPA and it has fallen on deaf ears.

I have no doubt that their ultimate goal it to promote competitive pinball. However it is obvious to me that they also like to do everything they can pump up the prize pot so the guys who run IFPA have a bigger pool to play for.

The IFPA "state championships" is a sham.

I would like to see us continue to grow competitive pinball events on the local, regional, and state level. Let's have a real state championship with players FROM Wisconsin!

Anyone else interested?

I think this would be a mistake. I get that there needs to be room for improvement, but having an event just to spite another event is NOT the solution. This is not promoting pinball, if anything, it is tearing pinball apart. Pinball is not big enough to break away into seperate/competing factions.

If you wanted to run a private league at residences, that is one thing, but running something that coincides with something else is not going to help at all, you are making people make a decision as to choosing one or the other and not participating in both.

I am not calling pinball a professional sport, but if you look at all professional sports teams, very few players are from the state in which the team resides. I don't have a problem with players from other states competing in Wisconsin, the solution is simply to beat them (isn't that what competition is at it's root?).

I *could* see charging out of state players more of an entry fee to participate, as that would most likely keep most of them from coming in and playing, but still allow them the opportunity to participate if they wish.
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ralphwiggum
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by ralphwiggum »

Ken wrote:After yesterdays Up North tourney I think we need to get a few more WI tourneys on the schedule. try and get more WI people into the top 16 for the state chamionship. Sounds like it's pretty easy to get it "official". 1. have it on the IFPA calendar 30 days in advance. 2. Have a website (wisconsinpinball.com) to direct people to. 3. Don't exclude anyone.

Tim, we could make an exclusive thread jsut for infos sake right? No posting (if we want) just tourney info and registration?

I really don't like the idea of a state championship without more WI people like Neo, Tim, and MANY others. Or maybe I'm just worrying to much. I'm pretty sure I'm in the top 16 after MRP and the Up North so this is not for me as much as the people I enjoy playing with.

If anyone knows another place like Up North (2 machines or more) to have some small tourneys chime in. Local hangout? Friends bar? Bowling alley? I'll coordinate with location if need be.

We could absolutely do this. This is very simple. I think Jon is doing a great job of posting tournaments and could make him (or whoever would like to be responsible for this/Tully maybe?) a moderator for the Upcoming Events Thread, so that IFPA stuff is stickied/noted, and we can simply link the thread from IFPA to a static Address on Wisconsinpinball.
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jpolfer
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by jpolfer »

Hilton wrote:I am actually debating running the REAL WI state Championship at a private residence on the same date that IFPA is running their fake WI championships.

As many of you know I feel the IFPA state championship stuff is a crock based on 2 things:

1. As Jon pointed out, the state you live in has nothing to do with the event. I will not be surprised if a few ringers from surrounding states show up to play in the WI IFPA championships just so they have a better chance of attending the IFPA national event (I think top 2 go on). Currently the top 7 'WI' players are NOT from WI. 10 out of the top 16 are NOT from WI. This is not like any state event for any other sport I have ever heard of.

2. The money grab of the IFPA for the national event is pretty sick. The way they have set up each state event is that it will bring in $320 in entrance fees. They require that $100 goes directly to the national prize pool. It is not surprising that some of the top players in the world/nation are also the ones making up the rules. I would have no problem if they required a $50 entrance fee for anyone playing in the national event but the requirement for each state to donate $100 regardless if their players will attend nationals is BS in my opinion.

I have provided this feedback to IFPA and it has fallen on deaf ears.

I have no doubt that their ultimate goal it to promote competitive pinball. However it is obvious to me that they also like to do everything they can pump up the prize pot so the guys who run IFPA have a bigger pool to play for.

The IFPA "state championships" is a sham.

I would like to see us continue to grow competitive pinball events on the local, regional, and state level. Let's have a real state championship with players FROM Wisconsin!

Anyone else interested?
I actually agree with you, but "sham" and "crock" are pretty strong. I don't feel comfortable using those words, especially for the first attempt to do this on a national level.

But the rules are the rules for this time around, good or bad.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of having out-of-state players allowed to play in the championship for a particular state (says the man who's qualified for another state's championship...). I should let Josh know my opinion on that...

I will say that the allowance for that sort of thing actually meets an IFPA goal: to encourage players to travel to tournaments. It could be surprising to see the results: I went to a tournament in GA as a conceit - my primary reason was to go on a blind date with someone my friends wanted me to meet. After the date, I went to the tournament. I got to know some super-cool people down in GA who love pinball as much as we do. One of them is even working on a home-built P2K sequel to Demolition Man. And I'm probably going back to attend the Southern-Fried Gameroom Show next year. If having rules encourages more connections like that - I think that's pretty cool.

Pumping up the prize pool - yeah, that does happen, and it does tend to favor the better players. And yeah, the better players *run* the IFPA. Coincidence or Conspiracy? Probably both, but I think its more coincidence. Consider the following...

I think this is related to the problem of: Should the tournament directors play in their own tournaments? To outsiders, the answer 'No' is obviously the most fair, and I agree with them. But here's the thing: the people that actually get out and run the tournaments are, by and large, players, and there really aren't people who aren't players stepping up or care to run tournaments. There was lots of talk in our route community by players who wanted more tournaments, but they didn't happen until some of us stood up to run them, like Matt Koster or Michelle.

Are these problems? Yep, they are - hopefully they can be addressed next year.
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by Hilton »

My 'spite' comes from the fact that I have attempted to provide my input to Josh/IFPA on this matter and it has fallen on deaf ears.

The only response I have even gotten from them was something to the fact of "We have our reasons for running things the way we do". Which I have interpreted as they do not care what others think and do not care for input. It is a huge contrast to the positive response I got from PAPA when I provided feedback.

Basically, with no option to actually be able to provide input for improvement of the IFPA 'state' championships what is a guy supposed to do when I desire to level the playing field and make things more fair and fun for the typical caliber of player in WI.

When it really comes down to it, I care primarily about OUR local/regional/state community and want to promote competitive play that is more fun to ALL levels of players in our state.

2 years of playing, hosting, assisting in the majority of WI events makes it pretty clear that there is currently a decent gap when comparing the top players in WI to the top players in our neighboring states.

Sure, the simple answer is to play more and play better. I live in the reality that I and many other WI players are only so good compared to the top dogs from IL and MN. To me competitive pinball is only so fun when it continues to cater to the top.
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by tullster »

I wasted an hour of my morning composing a long winded well written reply, hit preview and lost it all! Save your drafts, dummy!! :oops:

So f*#k it, in a nutshell... I don't care, and will reserve judgement until the State Tourney is said & done. It's great that competitive Pinball has taken off. It was tried in the mid 90's and failed. Now, due to the internet & home collectors, I think it's here to stay.

I am pleasantly surprised by how successful the Waun-a-Tourney & MRP have been. I'm taking one year at a time, but am looking at a 4th WAT. Also, If Jon defects to GA, ;) I'll run the State tourney, but will need someone to step up and help....please.

Good Times!!
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Hilton
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by Hilton »

Tully,

If Jon defects, I will lend you a hand. It is the only way I will make it to the event and probably the right thing to do.

If you can't beat em, then run the events so you can join em' ;)
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by jpolfer »

Hilton wrote:Tully,

If Jon defects, I will lend you a hand. It is the only way I will make it to the event and probably the right thing to do.

If you can't beat em, then run the events so you can join em' ;)
I won't know for certain if I'm in until later this year. The comment was more or less a heads-up.
Hilton
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Re: More WI tourneys.

Post by Hilton »

jpolfer wrote:
Hilton wrote:Tully,

If Jon defects, I will lend you a hand. It is the only way I will make it to the event and probably the right thing to do.

If you can't beat em, then run the events so you can join em' ;)
I won't know for certain if I'm in until later this year. The comment was more or less a heads-up.

Looks like only 1 more planned event in GA. Are you going down for that one?
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