Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

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johnstewart
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Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by johnstewart » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:49 pm

This is the first time I've been this deep into mucking about with an EM game. This one happens to be one my dad got when I was in high school, and has had ever since. When I bought my first pin last year, I added it to my collection. Captain Fantastic.

Even when he first got it (sometime in the early 90's), the flippers were weak sauce. So I finally embarked on a full on flipper rebuild kit. I bought two of these since CF has two sets of flippers:
http://www.thepinballwizard.net/index.p ... ct&id=1639

I tried to follow this guide to doing the job:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic ... st-2235465

As he suggested, I flipped the coil on reassembly, though I'm not sure I like this... I had to splice in some new wire to make the connections fit. I'm not sure what the intended point is; he says in this post it makes the coil more reliable.

I did the rebuild first on the lower left flipper, but then when it came to the switch, the one included in the kit won't work. These lower flippers have a more funky switch configuration. I then ordered a couple of these:
http://www.thepinballwizard.net/index.p ... ct&id=1785

This is the (rebuilt, but with original switch in place) flipper assembly. You can see the new flipper switch on the right.
IMG_0272.JPG
My questions:

Which way does this switch go? The pic above is how I assumed the switch went, but in looking at this further, it actually looks like this is the correct orientation of the new switch
IMG_0273.JPG
... which I think means that the left part (between the 2nd and 3rd leg) is normally CLOSED. And the right part is normally OPEN.

In my old hardware, it looks like the left part is normally closed, but the right part is also normally closed, but perhaps mis-adjusted and should be normally open (I may have screwed this up when disassembling, perhaps)?

Also:

- Is it worth it to flip the coil? What's the point?

- As you can see in this first picture, the original screws for the switch are too short. I plan to just hit the hardware store tomorrow for longer screws, but that these don't fit gives me pause. Any reason to be concerned or special screws needed?

Thank you! I wish my first flipper rebuild were a simpler case! =)
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ralphwiggum
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by ralphwiggum » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:39 am

I would flip the coils back around if you had to make splices for them. The reason a lot of people rotate them is because the physical impact at the end of the assembly is greater than in the middle. Rotating them take the impact off of the solder joint (in theory). Being that it isn't on route, and you had to make a splice, I wouldn't do it, personally.


As far as the switch stack goes..... Just grab a pair of needle nose pliers and replace the leaf(s) by separating the small fiber boards. Those switches can be disassembled and reassembled. Do one switch at a time, so you know your spacing, direction, and order.
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johnstewart
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by johnstewart » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:22 am

Ralph - thank you, definitely will move the coil back to original.

But I don't understand what you're saying on the switch - you're saying I should pull the new metal out of the new switch, and use the old, thinner, insulators?

But even if I do this, the form factor on these switches seems wrong. I wish I could find docs on what the normal behaviour is for these switches (normally open/closed) because I don't think the screwed up ones I have now are a good guide (the other side's bottom switch looks even more gnarly).
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by johnstewart » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:54 am

After a run to the hardware store looking for longer screws, that route may be more difficult than I thought.

These are apparently #6 machine screws, but fine thread. I need, it looks like, 1" instead of 7/8" long
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ralphwiggum
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by ralphwiggum » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:06 pm

johnstewart wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:54 am
After a run to the hardware store looking for longer screws, that route may be more difficult than I thought.

These are apparently #6 machine screws, but fine thread. I need, it looks like, 1" instead of 7/8" long
Yeah, they arent an easy find. That being said, I may be stating it poorly, but I wouldnt put a different sized switch stack in an EM. They rely on the switches so much to function, that everything has to line up just right.

You can make your new switch stack look like your old one by pulling those spacers and then cutting the mounting tubes the spacers are on, as I mentioned earlier, you can slide just the metal leafs to the old switch stack.

As far as normally open or normally closed go, look at your new switch, that looks accurate (without seeing the manual), as it is perfectly straight. Once you slide the new leafs in the old assembly, you should have a really good idea of what normally open and mornally closed look like just because everything will be perfectly straight. (as long as the gap measurements are the same between leafs, and the contacts are close to the same in depth).

I hope this makes sense, it is a little tricky to explain.
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Chris K
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by Chris K » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:22 pm

I'll take some pics of my flipper assemblies tonight, for some more points of reference. I've got one coil with a new switch stack from PBResource.
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by johnstewart » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:35 pm

Chris K wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:22 pm
I'll take some pics of my flipper assemblies tonight, for some more points of reference. I've got one coil with a new switch stack from PBResource.
Awesome; I think that might help a lot.

Completely striking out on finding longer screws online. Dude at the hardware store said I had a #6, but fine thread (the #6 nut was binding up when testing on the screw out of CF). Looking at size charts, for #6, coarse is 32 and fine is 40... but damnned if I can find any 6-40 anywhere!

Weird.
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Chris K
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by Chris K » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:03 pm

Here's the top of my playfield. Can you see enough detail from this?
IMG_20171009_204637.jpg
Our pinball table breeding stock:
Street Fighter 2, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Ghostbusters Pro, Phantom of the Opera, Scared Stiff, Black Hole, World Cup Soccer, Roy Clark yo!, Captain Fantastic, The Games, Star Wars Pro
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by johnstewart » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:16 pm

This is awesome, Chris. Thank you! This helps a lot. And yours looks nice and clean under there, much nicer than mine.

This switch stack looks like a franken-stack similar to what was described in that forum post (but about the simpler one-flipper switch), not quite what I ordered, but I think it'll work similarly.

For that lower left flipper, it looks to you like A here should be normally closed, and B should be normally open, then when the flipper fires, it should be the reverse, right? (A breaks open, and B closes)
5euzmdg3.png
This seems to be the case based on your photo and how it seemed like it should have been wired.

Now, if only I could find screws to fit, I'd give this a go...

Thanks much! This is super helpful, Chris.
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Chris K
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by Chris K » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:07 am

I’ll check my switch gaps... they do look close from that pic, actually.

One thing that just occurred to me... IIRC, the lower flipper switch stacks actually include the switches that trigger the upper flippers.
Our pinball table breeding stock:
Street Fighter 2, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Ghostbusters Pro, Phantom of the Opera, Scared Stiff, Black Hole, World Cup Soccer, Roy Clark yo!, Captain Fantastic, The Games, Star Wars Pro
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by johnstewart » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:46 am

Right. I *think* that the "B" there is what closes, and then fires the upper flipper. I THINK!
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by johnstewart » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:41 pm

FYI in case anyone stumbles on this thread looking for help... turns out the correct type of screw is #5-40... totally oddball, it seems. Was able to special order 1" ones at Fastenal.

Now about to try and finally get this thing installed!
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by johnstewart » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:38 am

Yay! First flipper rebuild complete.

THIS proved to me massively useful when it turned out my pre-surgery photos didn't show all the wires. This thing was so daunting when I first opened it up, but it's actually super clear and well labeled, with all the wire colors.

Indeed the one switch is normally closed, and the other is normally open.
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QuyN
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Re: Captain Fantastic - flipper EOS switch

Post by QuyN » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:02 am

awesome John! Glad you finally got one down. Hopefully the other one will be much easier!
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