SF2 left flipper = jackpots

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Chris K
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by Chris K » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:40 pm

Yeah, I haven't "broken" it yet! I had to tear myself away from the game to get some work done. There's nothing like a freshly-working pinball table to distract!
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Chris K
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by Chris K » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:50 pm

Annnnnd, I spoke too soon! It's back with a vengeance! The left flipper triggers jackpots, and this time I noticed it would sometimes trigger with a ball at rest (in the shooter lane for a multiball start... the game has no auto plunger). It seems like if I let it sit the jackpots will stop, but if I flip the left flipper I'll get one or two jackpots. And if I hold the bottom left flipper up but the top left flipper down (ie: middle of the flipper travel) it'll sometimes just keep piling on the jackpots.

I also just learned that whatever gorilla assembled my GB completely stripped both screws on the right side lockdown bar latch... the latch fell off in a pile of wood shavings today, too. So I got that going for me. :)
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by ralphwiggum » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:35 am

So I had a little time to look at what you posted..... Here is how I would proceed if it were in my house....


Two of the switches giving you issues share a return (return 2). I would visually inspect both of those switches/wiring (left flipper EOS and shooter lane) for loose wiring. Pull/wiggle all the wires associated with both of those switches and see if anything moves. If those both look good, look upstream on that return to the other switches on there to see if any of those have any loose connections too.

If everything appears tight, I would then go underneath the playfield and start measuring resistors on the dedicated resistor board (for all playfield switches).

There is also an opto board (or two, depending on machine) that drives the optos, but we can check that later.
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by Chris K » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:43 pm

I checked all the wires on return 2, and checked return 1 as well (SW91 is on return 1... that's the switch that seems to be spastic), and didn't notice anything loose. Well, I used an inspection camera to check Loop (SW32) cause I'd have to disassemble the whole damn table to get to that, but that one looks rock-solid too.

I'm a bit of a noob electrically, but I did some checking...

All four resistors on the resistor board (A13) measured OK. All are spec'ed at 220 ohms and measured 218.

I checked the opto boards too... it got a little weird. There are two boards, and each of them behaved identically between the two, so my notes below apply equally to each board.

Opto board R2, R7, R10, and R15 are spec’ed at 1.5K ohms and measured 1350 each. A hair outside the 5% spec.
Opto board R3, R6, R11, and R14 are spec’ed at 8.2K ohms and measured 3580 each.
Opto board R19 is spec’ed at 1000 ohms and measured at 360 each. (Its pair, R18, measured 950, which is within 5%.)
Opto board R20 is spec’ed at 270 ohms and measured at 220 each.
Everything else measured OK.

It looks all screwy, but how the heck would I have eight 8.2K ohm resistors on two different boards all meter to 3580 ohms? It sounds like I don't know what I'm looking at, rather than a bunch of resistors conspiring to fail similarly.
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by ralphwiggum » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:16 pm

you cant measure resistors in circuit most of the time, they will give you readings just like you are seeing.

lets keep it simple.... i would replace the current set of optos giving you problems, since everything else phyiscally checks out.

one other quick test.... put game into switch test, and beat on the playfield with your fist.... any false positives when you do this?
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by Chris K » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:01 pm

False positives other than rubbing against the left flipper button and confusing the hell out of myself, you mean? :D

I pounded on it a bit and I think I got SW91 (the problem opto) to fire. I say I think because it happened really fast and after seeing that I beat the crap out of it quite a bit and could not make it happen again.

Looks like Steve Young doesn't carry the MA-1330 or MA-1331 pair that makes up this opto pair anymore. He sells a different set of opto boards now that are smaller... not sure how I'm going to mount those!

Hey, if I disconnect that opto entirely and don't get the spurious readings anymore, I know it's the opto, whereas if I DO continue to get jackpots I can probably assume that the opto is OK and the error is elsewhere, right?
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by ralphwiggum » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:00 am

i might have a pair in my stash...
yes disconnecting the opto will rule out flaky optos.
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by Hilton » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:44 am

I would also clean up and resolder all opto boards (both pins and the actual optos).

I was having an issue on my Godzilla and that appears to have fixed it.

Opto issues are a PITA to track down but once figured out they always seem so obvious in hindsight :)
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Chris K
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by Chris K » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:53 am

I'll try disconnecting the opto tonight and see if that has an impact. If that makes a difference I'll reflow/resolder it and see if the game behaves with it connected again.

Hopefully that does it so I don't have to venture into unobtanium opto boards!
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by Chris K » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:51 pm

So I tried it over lunch... I only had time for four games, but I don't think I got any accidental jackpots from the opto I disconnected. Fortunately this opto isn't important to play the game, so I can play the snot out of it tonight to see if it truly is the opto itself flaking out.

Weird that it never trips in the switch test... I discounted this problem due to that.

Of course two of the four games when I was testing I WOULD have gotten to the Champion's Challenge (rare for me) if that damn opto were only connected. Chun Li laughed at me as I defeated her. Dammit. :)

I'll post an update tonight!
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by ralphwiggum » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:01 pm

If you end up reflowing the solder on these boards, make sure you actually clean out all of the older solder first (if you can). The flux on these System 3's was hit and miss, and I have seen optos, lights, and smart switches on this generation of games do weird things because of the flux used.
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by Chris K » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:09 pm

Oh, is that this "organic solder" I've heard about? Soylent Silver? :)

Thanks for the tip, I'll suck all the old stuff out first.
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by ralphwiggum » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:15 pm

The solder "is people!"
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by ralphwiggum » Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:20 pm

Chris K wrote:
I'll post an update tonight!
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Re: SF2 left flipper = jackpots

Post by Chris K » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:18 am

Ha! Sorry, I played a few games but couldn't get the problem to occur. This problem is really irritating, because I ALWAYS think it's solved until n+1 games later. I'm pretty gun shy about calling out a root cause at this point! :)

The last couple nights I haven't been able to get down to the pinball room to work on it. Today I'm working from home, though, so I'm hoping to spend lunch sucking Soylent Solder out of Chun Li.
Our pinball table breeding stock:
Street Fighter 2, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Ghostbusters Pro, Phantom of the Opera, Scared Stiff, Black Hole, World Cup Soccer, Roy Clark yo!, Captain Fantastic, The Games, Star Wars Pro
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