DMD for Data East pin?

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DMD for Data East pin?

Post by johnstewart » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:02 pm

I'm currently troubleshooting a problem with my Lethal Weapon 3 where the DMD is not fully booting. Tech details here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic ... er-issue-1

I'm thinking more and more that the DMD is bad (initially had suspected the power supply, but now measuring within spec).

I'm wondering if there is anyone with a Data East DMD I might beg/borrow, to try and swap in?

It's the "standard" 128x32 DMD, the same as the Bally/Williams.

I'm thinking I'll have to buy a new DMD, but would like to confirm a new DMD will work before I drop the coin on that.

thanks!
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by ralphwiggum » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:00 am

Does your DMD power on fine every time you turn on the machine? If it does, your DMD is fine. The words you see when you first power up the game are generated by the DMD controller board. After that boots, the logic from the CPU board then works with the DMD controller board to populate the info on the display. It definitely sounds like a logic problem, and not a power problem. At this point, I am 99% confident your DMD is fine.

Start with the simple stuff...... Reseat all of the ribbon cables a couple of times to remover any built up tarnish. We can keep troubleshooting as you go along, we will get it fixed. LW3 was my first game 17 years ago, I know DE boardsets REALLY well, so we should be able to get this going.

My initial thought reading this is that you had an EPROM go bad on the display controller board. Lets do some troubleshooting and see where it goes.
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by ralphwiggum » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:05 am

Just watched your video..... Your DMD controller board is stuck in a boot loop.... This is a logic issue, but could be a 5 volt issue going to the DMD controller board. This could be a number of things, including a corrupt EPROM (It happens), but you should still start with reseating all of the ribbon cable first.

After that, I would then going to the power supply board in the upper left of the back box and remove each fuse one by one and squeeze inwards on each fuse clip to make sure they are nice and tight. These DE fuse clips are garbage and are often the culprit in many DE "gremlin" issues.
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by ralphwiggum » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:13 am

Reading your thread you linked.... try this- Is your other pinball turned on when LW3 has issues? How about when your other pin is off, does LW3 work then?

DE are a little different than most other pins in that they will play somewhat fine with reduced voltage at the outlet. Most pins will reset, but DE will actually continue to play, but play "sluggish".
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by johnstewart » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:37 am

Awesome, Ralph. I really appreciate it. I'm still getting into the tech (necessity being the mother of all invention, eh?) now as this is my first pin, so I'm sure my terminology is dodgy. Headed over to Menards shortly to see if I can find the fuse I blew in my idiotic monkeying around last night.

I agree that the display itself seems okay, it's the logic for the DMD. The DMD logic board is screwed into the DMD assembly, right? I have re-seated all of those cables, but when I get home this afternoon will do so again. All of the 5V lines coming in show solid 4.94 or thereabouts. I'm seeing this on the CN2 connector which is just 5V input (I tested, with DMD on, touching the contacts on the back of the board - 4.94 solid), and the P1 connector which also brings in the high voltage DC. All look 4.94 or so.

I have not found any rhyme or reason to when it works, and when it doesn't. I've tried turning off the other ping, turning off the fluorescent lights in that room, etc. The other pin works fine, but it's an old EM machine.

When I check the AC coming in on that outlet, it was 122V or so. You're suggesting maybe something with that circuit might be interfering with it? I'll run an extension cable and try some different circuits.

Re: fuses

Yes, from all my searching this week, I see how the DE fuse clips have a bad reputation. But if we had high resistance there, we'd see a drop in voltage at the DMD, right? This is what makes me think that's not the issue (and the fuse I blew on the power supply board, F7, was definitely in there good.

Thanks again, Ralph! Will update when I know more.

First I have to figure out why my damn furnace is blowing fuses, as of this morning. Woke up to a cold house! When it rains, it pours...
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by ralphwiggum » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:05 pm

It isn't the resistance from a poor fuse holder, they literally have zero strength, and while they "appear" to be making solid contact on the fuse, they really aren't. In this case, when they are weak, they momentarily lose connection enough to cause all sorts of weird issues.

In my experience with DE games (and Williams system 11 games- which DE stole the design from), if you aren't ABOVE that 5 volt threshold,weird stuff starts to happen. While your 4.96 should be within spec, being a little higher up would be ideal.

Do you have an old computer power supply laying around? I could walk you through making a makeshift test connector with a power supply going to the DMD driverboard to rule out low voltage.

Where are you located? Most of us on here have a ton of fuses on hand to save you a trip to the store to pay way too much for fuses.


THE DMD-board- yes, that is on the backside of the display assembly. Make sure you re-seat the long ribbon cable going up to the cpu board as well (on the cpu board and on the dmd driver board).

If you are getting 122 at your outlet, you are fine.....


As far as your furnace goes..... that is a different forum...lol
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by johnstewart » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:11 pm

ralphwiggum wrote:It isn't the resistance from a poor fuse holder, they literally have zero strength, and while they "appear" to be making solid contact on the fuse, they really aren't. In this case, when they are weak, they momentarily lose connection enough to cause all sorts of weird issues.
Right, but given that the voltage is steady at the board, makes me think the fuse holder isn't losing connectivity.
In my experience with DE games (and Williams system 11 games- which DE stole the design from), if you aren't ABOVE that 5 volt threshold,weird stuff starts to happen. While your 4.96 should be within spec, being a little higher up would be ideal.

Do you have an old computer power supply laying around? I could walk you through making a makeshift test connector with a power supply going to the DMD driverboard to rule out low voltage.
Ahhh! OK, well I do have a universal power supply, new in box, for an arcade cabinet I was working on. I can get that hooked up. Is it just the 5V coming into the CN1 connector I need to power?
Where are you located? Most of us on here have a ton of fuses on hand to save you a trip to the store to pay way too much for fuses.
Near west Madison; Menards did indeed have the 1/2A fuse on hand, cheap (they did NOT have the 3A fuse I needed for my furnace, weirdly). =)
THE DMD-board- yes, that is on the backside of the display assembly. Make sure you re-seat the long ribbon cable going up to the cpu board as well (on the cpu board and on the dmd driver board).

If you are getting 122 at your outlet, you are fine.....
Roger that. Will re-seat all cables first.
As far as your furnace goes..... that is a different forum...lol
Hah! House is warming up now; have the thermostat wires jumpered =)
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by johnstewart » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:36 pm

Well, crap.

So the immediate problem was the blown fuse. I replaced it, and checked all the fuses on the power board, all good. But I'm now not getting any high voltage to the DMD (-110, -98, or 68).

This is a separate problem *I* caused when I pulled this connector off last night with the pin powered on. I don't know which pins touched what, but I saw a spark, and that F7 fuse blew. Well, turns out it's more than just a fuse, argh!


It was the bottom left CN5 connector in this image here, which I believe (still haven't confirmed!) it's the connector that feeds these high voltages.

Going to do some continuity tests on the cable now, but if you have any suggestions on this, I'm all ears. Like I said, all fuses I can find on the power board are okay. I'm afraid I fried something on the power board now.

thanks!
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by ralphwiggum » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:42 pm

are you testing the fuses with a meter, or are you visually inspecting them?

take a look at fuse f3 on the power supply board, this is the fuse for your high voltage.
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by johnstewart » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:55 pm

ralphwiggum wrote:are you testing the fuses with a meter, or are you visually inspecting them?

take a look at fuse f3 on the power supply board, this is the fuse for your high voltage.
With a meter/continuity tester, yeah.

OK, where in the heck is F3? Pic attached. I see F1, F2, F4, F5, F6, F7, but no F3! Haha did I vaporize it?

I am not good juju with electronics today, clearly. =)
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by johnstewart » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:58 pm

It's a 520-5047-02 Revision A

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?t ... isionA.jpg

Maybe no F3?
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by ralphwiggum » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:07 pm

sorry, reading schematics from my phone.... i will grab the manual tonight and confirm what i am trying to see....
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by johnstewart » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:43 pm

ralphwiggum wrote:sorry, reading schematics from my phone.... i will grab the manual tonight and confirm what i am trying to see....
Aye, thanks.

So, whatever I did to it, seems to be re-blowing that F7 fuse, bah (even with the DMD disconnected completely). Seeming like I fried something good on that power board.

The only replacements I find available right now are the Rottendog ones... which I think have a somewhat suspect provenance? Seems like some people really don't like them. But for $100 shot at fixing this, may pull out the money gun here...
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by ralphwiggum » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:16 pm

i was looking at my Maverick schematics.... F3 is the dmd voltage for Maverick, which has the larger dmd. F7 is the high voltage fuse for the regular DMD. If you are blowing F7 with the DMD completely unplugged, you smoked the HV section of the board. This is definitely fixable.

That being said, I would personally grab the Rottendog, and get the original fixed. I havent had too many issues with the Rottendog stuff, but your other choice is xpin if you are concerned about Rottendog....

http://xpinpinball.com/power-supplies-d ... er-boards/
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Re: DMD for Data East pin?

Post by johnstewart » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:12 am

Aye, yeah, I think I fried it. Will do that; order a replacement then set about trying to fixing the original.

The reason I think Rottendog is that the XPin is on backorder, alas:
http://xpinpinball.com/product/xp-de5047/
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